The Mighty Power Ballad (a Stoop Chat 🔉)

Includes an educational playlist 📋🎶

It’s the first weekend of February, which, starting in 2024, is Power Ballad Weekend. In honor of the first ever POWER⚡️BALLAD⚡️WEEKEND, we put together a carefully researched stoop chat that dives head-first into this most divisive of genres, with the goal of defining and explaining it for newbies, delighting the already-initiated with talk of their old favs, and perhaps challenging a few shibboleths and pissing off the die hards with our hot takes and flat-out-incorrect assertions.

We made a Spotify playlist to help you along:

It doesn’t include every song we mention in the chat, aiming for listenability rather than exhaustive rigor. The enthusiastic student will want to augment with some outside listening.

As to whether you should inhale the playlist or the chat first, or intermix the two… up to you. Intermixing might be nice, if choppy. The prudent approach, which will offer something like the same preparation with which we approached this conversation, is to listen through the playlist before dropping into the chat. But we appreciate you may want to let us stoke your fervor a bit before wading in — like letting a guru elaborate the immense benefits of cold water plunges before you dive into that ice bath. Your call. The playlist, again, is here; and the chat…

🥜 Scroll down for a rough transcript of this audio. 🥜

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A couple of notes:

• We ask and don’t figure out whether Skid Row wrote their two great power ballads, “18 and Life” and “I Remember You.” Well, they DID, everybody. Round of applause for Skid Row.

• Diane Warren may indeed possess the pair of hands and set of vocal cords responsible for writing the most power ballads. In the chat, Keith misattributes “Lady” (Styx, 1973) to her, but she did write “Nothing’s Gonna Stop Us” (Starship), “When I See You Smile” (Bad English), “I Don’t Wanna Miss a Thing” (Aerosmith), “Turn On The Night” (Kiss),  and several others, as well as scores of other popular tunes, many of “sentimental ballad” classification. 🙇🏼‍♂️ Hail Diane.

Quiz

Now that you’ve heard us blather hyper-intelligently about power ballads for nearly an hour, and listened to the 2-hour companion playlist, you’ve got a stake in the game and are ready to participate. Read the following prompts, vote where appropriate, and put responses to the numbered questions in the post comments, or just say the answer aloud to yourself to prove you know it.

1. Name at least one power ballad, released between 1973 and 1998, that we did not mention in the chat.

2. Name one song released after 1998 that you believe qualifies as a power ballad.

3. Give an example of a power ballad lyric that’s actually good. (See Heart’s “Alone” if you doubt the premise.)

Looking forward to your thoughts on all this. We hope we’ve turned you on to a PB you hadn’t heard before, or reminded you of one you’d forgotten. And we aim to have kindled at least a flicker of PB passion in the hearts of the haters. These jacked-up ballads may not seem very “cool,” but not all good things are. Heck, Axl Rose might have been speaking as a power ballad come to life when he sang, “And when your fears subside / And shadows still remain, oh yeah / I know that you can love me / When there's no one left to blame.” (See “November Rain.”) 🥰

Remember, per Starship, “we can build this dream together.” 🙌

💔,

These fuckin dorks are definitely NOT playing a power ballad.

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Mediocre transcript of audio…

Some of you have requested that we include transcripts of Stoop Chats. We’re searching for, and have not found, a transcription method that is (a) cost-effective (ideally free, or nearly), (b) efficient (doesn’t require a lot of additional editing from us), and (c) good. If you have a suggestion, do let us know in the comments, or just by replying to any emailed post. Anyway, here’s a transcription of the power ballad chat that’s pretty accurate, and would need quite a bit of formatting to be a great read, but should help if you’re interested in listening to the songs we’re talking about at the same time that we talk about them.

00:01

Well, well, well. How's it going, gang? We're back. We are stooping to a new low today. Absolutely. What was once thought to be the highest height of pop music...

00:16

has been revealed as a real mire over the course of history. Yeah. To the deep crater, perhaps even. No, we're not talking about the sea shanty. Yes, your beat actually, that is a more correct, derogatorily viewed musical form correctly. I mean, in fact, this is probably somewhere in the middle of the genres. But perhaps in keeping with this particular genre,

00:46

hyperbolic, overdramatic, like the form itself. Yeah, exactly. We're talking, of course, about the power ballad. Woo! Yeah, yeah! Yeah! Yeah, sort of flaws or murmuring. Finally! Yeah. An audience who... Oh my...

01:05

Disturbed murmurs. Now, the power ballad as a form has been on our mind for a few weeks now. Mm-hmm. You know, we take part in this songwriting club, the Song Challenge Gang. And a few weeks ago, we were all meeting up, playing one another our day's work, and for reasons that neither of us can now remember.

01:33

someone decided that there should be a prompt for next week's challenge. And the prompt that was decided upon was a power ballad that everybody should come in with one power ballad written. One maximum. Yeah. Come on. We're not trying to spend all day listening to power ballads. No. We're going to need, you know, like the albums at the, at the power ballads heyday.

02:03

One was really enough, maybe two on the album, but yeah, you're gonna wanna hear some other stuff. Yeah. If memory serves, I was the only person that showed up with a power ballad the next week. Yeah, I think so. And your song, Tick to the Boxes, maybe we should delineate exactly what those boxes are now. And of course, there's a little bit of room for interpretation here, but what exactly do you consider a power ballad?

02:32

Well, I mean, you know, it's simply in terms of dynamics. The... Yeah, I think that's key. The versus...

02:42

ought to be very mild indeed, quite tender. Yeah, they could probably just be described as ballad. Yeah. Sentimental ballad being the full, I believe, genre. But then something happens. Then the power comes in. Either in the pre-chorus or the chorus. The power, some kind of explosion of power, often involving electric guitars, but perhaps arguably not necessarily. Yeah.

03:09

Choral vocals are often a part of it at least some big harmonies. Yeah big harmony song that chorus. Yeah and lyrically now you Yesterday when we were chatting about this kind of seemed convicted that a power ballad

03:26

almost needs to be romantic in nature. Romantic. I think I agree. Since today's review, which was a little bit haphazard, I have come to feel that's not absolutely essential. I think it's more descriptive than prescriptive. I believe a power ballad can deal with other subject matter and I have a quote from- I mean those would be the exceptions that prove the rule. Yes. So here's- this is just about a ballad.

03:56

and I think this applies to the power ballad as well, says that a ballad is an emotional style of music that often deals with romantic and intimate relationships and to a lesser extent, loneliness, death, war, drug abuse, politics, and religion. Usually in a poignant but solemn manner. I think that's, I think the stridentcy of the...

04:20

POV is kind of crucial. Yeah, but like 18 and life is a power ballad, right? Yes. And that's a yeah So that's not a love song really. That's it. That's not unless you love Shooting someone in the heat of passion and spending life in jail. Yeah, do you? Do you? Some do. It's not for me to your point it does seem like that the power ballad

04:50

and sort of crowbar-ing a power ballad onto a rock record was mandatory. Skid Row...

04:58

didn't quite oh although I was about to say skid row didn't quite figure it out although on that same album they also had I remember you I remember you also a giant power huge holy smokes I had forgotten about that I think that is their second highest charting well so 18 life is their highest charting single yeah 18 life got to number four on the hot 100 in the US and number 12 in the UK which is I discovered unusually high for a UK ranking power ballads do not at

05:28

did not do as well in the UK as they do. Power ballads were America in the 80s. Yeah, so by comparison, I remember you got to 6 in the US, but just 36 in the UK. But I think I remember you as pretty fucking great.

05:41

It's, I mean, as a model of the form, I don't think you can find a better model of the form. Yeah, like the real phoned in version, which a more generous person would describe as being the epitome of the form, is the I Remember You structure, which is strummed acoustic first verse, with tender singing, big old first chorus.

06:08

Wait, actually, I think I remember you does first verse pre-chorus where it lets the dogs out.

06:15

but then goes back to a second verse. Ooh, tasty. And I love that it, I love power ballads where they give you a taste of the power in the free chorus, but then they bring it right back in. That's why I think I actually prefer I Remember You to 18 and Life, even though 18 and Life is the more catchy. Now 18 and Life, 18 and Life pulls a similar move. Oh, does it? Well, it does the, he was a young boy, he had a heart of stone, lived nine to five, and he worked with

06:45

and then pulls it back. So that's a classic skid row move. Okay.

06:49

So they might be the masters. This is going to be up for argument, but we might have started right out of the gates identifying the masters. Although I think that's their only two notable power balance. I'm sure they tried several more times. Yeah. Now I was trying to imagine what like the very first... Like we were talking yesterday about... I've got some claims here. Stairway to Heaven. Yeah. Not really a power ballad. I think, yeah. It starts...

07:19

Quiet and and tender and gets big but not because there's a huge rousing chorus Yeah, you know just ramps one thing one thing you have to say about

07:32

Stairway to Heaven is that it was massively influential on this category. There are so many fucking power balance that start with a an effort to replicate the intro guitar, arpeggiated guitar. Yeah, like just trying to walk that roadmap. And then, yeah, usually putting a bigger hookier chorus on top of it. But Stairway is an undoubted super influence, although maybe not the best example. So that's 71. I read in two different places the claim

08:02

Without you by bad finger, which is 1970 is the original power ballad Here, Perry. Nielsen did a much better version Hell yes, that's the absolutely that's the better version Now the thing about Harry Nielsen's version and there's also a Mariah Carey version is that they actually just sound like ballads They really don't sound so much like power ballads. Yeah, but but the chorus is really do like Pop there's just there's not a grand show that dynamic change

08:32

you really are maybe remembering okay I when I when I was listening I was like oh wait that doesn't explode the way I expect a power ballad to and neither it is Badfinger's version so did Badfinger write without you? Badfinger wrote without you. yeah now then 1973 is Dream On by Aerosmith 100% power ballad so that might be 100% that might be the original power ballad and of course Aerosmith in conversation of the power ballad.

09:01

No matter what you think about Aerosmith and I you know, I think I know what people think about Aerosmith. Yeah They did have a lot of power ballads and they made a lot of money on the power ballad they had a lot of power ballads and What is their 1998 power ballad that one of Con Air's? Soundtrack, what do you think you are?

09:31

and amazing are after that right that was when they after that I think so I might be wrong

09:37

I think those might be before because that Aerosmith, that blue Aerosmith collection that had all that shit on it came out around that time. All right. I can't imagine these. Although I do think it had one original song on it and I don't think it was, I don't wanna miss a thing. Now I'd like, I wanna put a pin on the conversation of when or if the power ballad died. Cause I have some ideas. Okay, great, yeah. I do wanna note one last, let's leave the early 70s after tossing out a bone to stick.

10:07

Dicks whose song Lady seems to be considered by many. Oh, you're my, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, lady, yeah, total power ballad. So that's 73, same year as Dream On. Oh, what month? I don't know, I didn't actually. I didn't cut it that fine. We can say with some assurance that they didn't influence each other, so they both probably, like it's a Leibniz-Newton situation. I feel like Dream On is more of what generically

10:36

If only because Aerosmith continued to crank out monumental power ballads. I think for attributing provenance, Dream On is more the form that became the power ballad than Lady. Totally. But let's, yeah, I think we can agree that the 80s and 90s are the top time, and the 80s really are certainly when the power ballad becomes chart-topping, guaranteed, sort of just a ticket to a top ten.

11:06

were otherwise very popular but couldn't seem to crack the top 10 on radio. Yeah. The glam rockers. And glam rock, as much as I love it and came up on it, I do think that probably a reason that people deride glam rock so aggressively is that the power ballads tend to be pretty great, unambiguously enjoyable songs and then the rock songs

11:36

are utter garbage. Now, back in the day, the rock songs were what I was in it for. Riffs, I wanted shredding, I wanted a guy keening over the riffs. But yeah, now when I go back and revisit most of my favorite acts, the power ballad is really the only thing that survives those relistens for me. Poison? No thank you.

12:03

Yeah, what do you attribute that to? Nothing but a good time lasts. What do you think it is about the, uh... I mean, the power ballad, I guess, just slots into a more generic pop sort of format, whereas...

12:16

the glam rock, the metal-y stuff, I guess, has just totally aged out. Yeah, well. Why is it so? So I think part of it, and I'd like this to lead up to the great Metallica debacle. Oh boy, yeah. But so I think part of what makes those songs, the power ballads, more laudable is that they signify,

12:44

most often a general break from what is otherwise a genre full of lunk-headed, even wrong-minded lyrics. So the rock songs by these bands are almost uniformly, at least like, pathetic. They're like grotesque, pretty sad, a lot of the ideas that these people have.

13:13

are wrong-minded. Yeah. And certainly juvenile. Juvenile is a great, great word. And I think that also lends itself to the music beds. Tends to be fairly juvenile. Like they're kind of like half-baked songs crafted around like a guitar riff. Demonstrations. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um. Skill. And I think especially once it became clear that the ballad was going to be

13:43

the cash cow for the glam rock bands specifically. More care was taken on those.

13:52

The lyrics needed to be more palatable to a wider audience who weren't just, uh, you know, 14 year old boys. And one thing I discovered, I'll say parenthetically here is that some substantial number approaching half of those songs were written by outside songwriters. Diane Warren wrote a surprising number. I was going to say the quality of songwriting was up and higher because you would bring in a

14:17

Desmond Child, a Diane Warren, a Jim Steinman. Right, right. Although, you know, some of them, like I think...

14:26

skid row wrote theirs for example and they're dubious they're a couple they're a couple that because keep in mind skid row were managed by and discovered by Bon Jovi's management team oh right so Bon Jovi's management team who were also big Desmond Childe, Diane Warren hires weren't about to let their new their new hires that's true you know succumb to their own bad song I can tell you that

14:56

has its thorn by Poison written by Poison. Brett Michaels wrote it in distress. Supposed the story goes he's on the road he's in a laundromat doing his laundry which I guess does that check out? Wrong. Yeah. Okay their first album Look What the Cat's Rag Doin. It's a success but you know they're probably not bringing PAs on the road at that point. So he's on the phone with his girlfriend and he hears a male voice in the background and his girlfriend is unable to... Could have been the landlord.

15:26

girlfriend was flummoxed. I don't know what to say! Who are you? She said yeah and he hung up the slammed down the receiver and went and rode every rose has its thorn. So that and that's a great song. It's a great story. It's a great power ballad. It's a great power ballad. That is a great power ballad. And one assumes their biggest hit? That's their only number one hit. Yep. Wow. And it is

15:56

streaming. It also is, I always thought this was interesting even though as a kid I didn't listen to much Poison. It was strange to me that Every Rose Has Its Thorn affected a certain like country western vibe. Which also Bon Jovi did around the same time to much blame and effect. Oh that's, yeah I was going to say Bon Jovi definitely went out of their way to try to be Springsteen. Yeah.

16:24

Then, one of Dead or Alive, getting a little taste, and he did the Young Guns 2 soundtrack, Blaze of Glory, one of the great power balance. That's not romantic.

16:35

True, that's true. Yeah, nice. Yeah, in fact, uh, youthful ruin, I guess maybe a second, number two, number two topic. Yeah, yeah, succumbing, succumbing to uh, non-romantic passions. Yeah, yeah, Icarus, etc. Yeah, okay. So, but yeah, so we have a lot of co-writes in that era. A friend we were talking to, Annie Hart, friend of the band, yesterday,

17:05

this power ballad argument was dubious about the power ballad for reasons that are inexplicably, especially since she's definitely not someone who ever listened to any of the bands for whom power ballads were their most massive success, was dubious about it as a commercial tactic. And so I was thinking of all the bands whose power ballad was clearly...

17:32

their number one song. And I wrote some of these down. So, Poison, Poison being one. Warrant, Heaven, I think was right. Cherry Pie might have been bigger, but only because the video just featured a lady in Extreme Undress. Yeah, yeah.

17:50

Great White, Slaughter, Fly to the Angels, Tesla. Their only big song, Love Song. I wanted to talk about that song. Let's talk about Love Song. That's a bad, it's weird because it's simultaneously a technically very proficient song. It has more key changes than Babble Raid. I truly admire Tesla as masters of musicality at the time. I mean, they're definitely ambitious. They're ambitious songwriters. I, assuming they wrote that song.

18:20

in Tesla, I'll come right out and say that. And I wasn't even familiar with this song. I don't think it was a huge radio hit where I grew up. Interesting. And I don't find it very catchy. But you knew of Tesla? I mean, I had heard of the band, yeah. I'd heard of the band. But I didn't recognize any of their other top songs. I mean, there can't be another song. No, I didn't recognize that. I didn't recognize it. I think that it's just in the ether. Maybe they're mentioned in Miley Cruz's bio. No, well, that's the thing. Well, that's, you know, apart from their technical proficiency, I think part of what always made me

18:50

think of Tesla as a more legitimate bunch of musicians than the bands I actually preferred. Your Poisons, your Warrens, your Skid Rowes. Was that they were a bunch of pretty ugly dudes with very little personal charisma. So I always was like, they must be a great band if these guys are...

19:17

They took the glam out of glam rock. I do like Love Song. It's one of my least favorite, that I came across on a number of lists as one of the top power ballads. I think I like about Love Song is that they couldn't seem to decide on what version of the chorus about love they wanted to be the chorus of Love Song. It starts out.

19:42

I forget what the first one is. I think it's Love is all around you Love is knocking outside your door, etc. etc. Then, after the solo, like, that chorus might have sucked. The real chorus is Love will find a way And then that's the chorus for the rest of the song. The original chorus doesn't...

20:04

come back. Yeah. Pretty well. That's funny. Great solo on that though. Admit the solo is great. I mean I think a lot the musicality I really like and actually the recording I mean I like listening to the band. They are clearly a good a really good band. Yeah I don't hate listening to the song. The chorus just didn't do much for me. Maybe the problem is they didn't settle on one. Yeah. I wonder if the story behind that is that they in the process of writing the song they came up with two viable choruses and were simply unwilling to.

20:34

Yeah, yeah, not right. They're both going in. These are both too good. These are both too good. In a Bizarro universe version of that, the Ozzy Osbourne lead of Ford song, which I kind of don't consider a power ballad, If I Close My Eyes Forever, or whatever that's called. Yeah. I always also conflate with the Kicks song, Don't Close Your Eyes, which has a much bigger, better chorus. Yes. And when I think about

21:03

If I close my eyes forever, I think of that chorus as a pre-chorus to Kix's Don't close your eyes!

21:13

And I was like, if I close my eyes forever, it's a pretty good song. And then I realized it doesn't have that chorus. We should create a we should create a mashup that we release only on our own since, you know, we're not allowed to profit from it. Now, Chris, I want to talk about firehouses, love of a life central to our conversation over the last couple of weeks. And in fact, kind of what set this all in motion. Yeah. While I was thinking about power ballads and trying to get prompts for my power ballad. Yeah.

21:43

stumbled upon what I had thought. I mean I don't think I thought it was a good song but I thought it was a potent example of the power ballad. Firehouse's love of a lifetime. Now there ain't no way this existed in the UK so apologies to those there. I'll do the research while you continue. Firehouse was a real late-era glam band that came on the tail of Warrant.

22:11

Cinderella is also a power ballad only band. Much better, much better than Firehouse. But Firehouse's big song was called Love of a Lifetime. And I revisited it a week ago, two weeks ago, and sent the video or song to Chris in utter disbelief. At the.

22:35

paucity of quality. It's a terrible song and it's to the UK's credit that it apparently didn't chart there. Didn't appear. It got to number five on the US Billboard charts. Unbelievable. Probably, probably drove that album which I very queasily dipped my toes into just as a follow up. Probably drove that to like at least gold or platinum status. Yeah. It's, it is...

23:05

for how memorable it...

23:08

Apparently is, because I really remembered it instantly when you brought it up. Yeah. And I don't know why that hook somehow burrowed itself into our minds, but it's a really shitty song. It's awful. It's truly unbelievable. If you compare it to something like Cinderella's Don't Know What You've Got Till It's Gone, which it kind of seems like it's trying to emulate. Cinderella blows them out of the fucking water, which is not something I was expecting ever

23:38

say about Cinderella and another and another band. You better slow down. I mean I slow down. Based on today's listening I have a lot of respect for Cinderella because they have that and they also have what's the other... oh Coming Home. Wait, Home Cinderella? Yeah. Home Sweet Home is Motley Crue. Home Sweet Home is Motley Crue but Cinderella has a song called Coming Home that that I knew when I listened to it although now I can't think of it let's see we're gonna

24:07

in a playlist. Yeah, please. Please, if only for me. But we're gonna get some diegetic sound here. Oh, this is really in a payoff. Yeah. Oh, yeah, start. Oh, great song. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you're starting off with a 12-string acoustic. Yeah. Really taking the time with the intro. They know you've got, they've got you on the hook. This is just their follow-up.

24:35

Oh yeah. It's the road I was meant to take. I see the fire in your eyes but a man's gotta make his way. So that was the follow-up. They released Don't Know What You've Got Till It's Gone and that hit number 12 on the Hot 100 and then Coming Home did number 20. And those are their top two singles of their careers. But So Don't Know What You've Got topped out at number 51 in UK. Yeah Cinderella. Oh in the UK? Wow. Yeah. They didn't do well in the UK.

25:04

turn our UK listeners on to. So the real, I think, is equality. It always really delights me when I hear about seminal bands that I think of giants in the industry who we've beaten on the UK charts.

25:17

I love it. Sorry Cinderella. Go home. You're coming home. Yeah, you're coming home alright. Coming home to great acclaim of course. Should we pause and get another beer? Yeah, you're right. Okay, sorry we are back. Guys, we've been getting mired in glam.

25:37

We apologize. Glam is not the only... Well, wait, is there any other... Are there any other glam, like, crucial figures we need to note? I mean, damn Yankees blew our hats off yesterday. What was the Yankees song? High Enough. Oh, shit, High Enough's amazing. High Enough, an incredible... Uh...

25:55

product of a bunch of pretty rancid fellows. You mentioned Home Sweet Home by Motley Crue. Maybe not a great song in the Motley Crue catalog, but it's a good power ballad. For Motley Crue, look, I love Motley Crue. For Motley Crue, it's a work of genius. And I think, was that their highest charting song? That was, no, certainly not. No, Dr. Feelgood, the album Dr. Feelgood would...

26:19

have higher charting, but it is how they got their foot in the door of the commercial world. Gotcha. Is that on Girls Girls Girls? Oh, that's on Theater of Pain. So I think Girls Girls Girls was a pretty big song. Shout at the Devil probably was like on some radio, but the satanic aspect of it probably...

26:40

didn't sit well right home sweet home got Motley Crue famous now wait I want to go there's one more I don't know if this qualifies but bad English which was kind of a supergroup is that when I see you smile yeah when I see you smile my god I mean yeah that one my favorite damn Yankees also a supergroup it seemed like super groups are getting together just to put up power balance

27:03

I mean, Mr. Big, I wouldn't say to be with you is a power ballad. No, it doesn't have the dynamic change because they committed to the acoustics. But another super group was like, we need a love song. Yeah. Yeah, they never.

27:15

Which is funny because the guitar player of Mr. Big, Paul Gilbert, probably greatest shredder of all time. Sorry Eddie Van Halen, you busted. I mean, speaking of Van Halen, we had to bet no one had the power ballad. Well yeah, this is why I kind of always argue that they were better with singing Hagar. Oh yeah, Hagar.

27:33

When it's love. He brought the power ballads. Oh wait, what's the other? So when it's love and another, it's like a similar thing. It's like, when it, why can't this be love? Oh, why can't this be love? Oh, that's a great one. Yeah, Hagar's the master. Maybe that gets us into the outer ring of power ballads during the 80s that don't originate with a necessarily glam band, but bands that did want to play at least like hard rock.

28:03

And so that's gonna include your journey or ario speed wagon your I mean, I guess Queens, right is actually So I would they clam or they just Yeah, they've verged on glam they were like Cerebral. Yeah. Yeah, I might argue that Although journey journey will journey stuff about that foreigner. I say aria speed wagon might be my like second

28:30

Power Ballad band, like I like them more than Aerosmith. I think Aerosmith just went all in on Power Ballads. Yeah, they're among the- Art of the Speedwagon are the kings, I think, for me of Power Ballad. Yeah, they're among the best artists. In terms of quality and volume.

28:44

REO Speedwagon, that was their specialty. It's not like they wanted to spend their time doing other things. That was what they focused on. So what are the REO Speedwagon? I mean, they have- Keep on loving you. Can't fight this feeling. Time to fly. Take it on the run. Take it on the run, yeah. Gorgeous. REO Speedwagon might be the top one. They're a bad example of the shameful glam, the glam band sheepishly doing a power ballad, which was kind of the original idea.

29:14

of this podcast, but I think it's become more, let's really talk up the top power ballads. And in that situation, I think you're right. Aerosmith, Arios Speedwagon, the Doms, the Dominators. I mean, per your co-writing mention earlier, I did just want to go quickly through Diane Warren's. Please, yeah, Diane Warren. Now this is Select's.

29:42

from just her top 10s. Okay. Starship, nothing's gonna stop. Oh yeah, gorgeous. Belinda Carlisle, I get weak. Chicago, look away. Wow. Cher, if I could turn back time. Whistling.

29:57

Bad English, aforementioned Bad English, when I see you smile. Oh, did she do a license? Co-write! They were a super group, but then got a co-write. Brought in Diane Morin. Michael Bolton, How Can We Be Lovers? Not quite a power ballad, but it kicks in a little bit. Yeah.

30:14

Tony Braxton, Unbreak My Heart, Power Ballad. Yeah, yeah. Aerosmith, Don't Wanna Miss a Thing. Oh, she wrote that? The Armageddon of all. What you're claiming is the Armageddon of Power Ballads. Well, I saw, I saw. Oh, shit, and Sticks' Lady. Wow. She invented the force. Tip to tail. She invented it, she closed the door on it, with I Don't Wanna Miss a Thing, holy shit. Oh my God.

30:44

Tip to toe. Wow. I saw the British, the pretty reputable British hard rock media concern, louder ranks, I Don't Wanna Miss a Thing, the number one power ballad. And their their list of the top 40 is pretty good. I'll include a link. Number one power ballad, I Don't Wanna Miss a Thing. Wrong. Yeah I don't think that's, I don't think that's my personal favorite. I mean honestly that's calling Armageddon the best action.

31:14

I don't even know what kind of movie.

31:15

It's a really good type though. Yeah, drama. It's the best drama. Yeah. Yeah, it is sort of, I think that's a good analogy actually. I don't want to miss a thing, is to Power Ballads as Armageddon is to action movies. Yeah. Just to say it's very satisfying. All edges. It's very glossy. Yeah, all edges sure enough. It maybe lacks some of the potency of a more authentic product. But Diane Warren is an absolute master.

31:45

of Cher's songs and Cher opens up a frontier that I wanted to discuss which is the sort of like the the artists who really have nothing to do with hard rock

31:58

or even rock necessarily, but who created some incredible power ballads. Michael Bolton is another example. The thing is Cher often did have electric guitars in her songs, which kind of differentiates her from Michael Bolton. I don't know who else, like a Tony Braxton or Whitney Houston. I was going to say that, yeah, Richie Sambora played on some of her songs, right? What is Believe? I can't remember. That's the auto-tune. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's the auto-tune song.

32:28

See you soon!

32:29

Peter Satara in your power ballad rankings. I want to include Peter Satara, Chicago's singer Peter Satara. Oh yeah, what was Chicago's big boy? I mean- Oh, look away. So then Satara came in with Karate Kid 3-2? Glory of love. Yeah, incredible. After all, next time I fall, you're the inspiration. Chris, this guy is making bank.

32:59

if not great music. And a lot of that stuff I think has like a quiet acoustic guitar panned left or something.

33:06

It's not, it's not very, if you want an electric guitar, it doesn't necessarily satisfy that. But it does do the thing where the, there's a huge dynamic shift between the verse and the chorus. Wait, do you say Chicago is Look Away? Yeah. Yeah, so that's got actual guitar. Yeah. Gloria Love must have banging guitars under that. It's not very guitar-y. That's stupid. And it also does something that a lot of power ballads

33:36

which is that it starts with very...

33:39

processed electric piano. I mean that was common with pop power ballads, glam rockers. That's right, yeah. They were like, no piano, at most piano. I mean, Home Sweet Home. Well yeah, Home Sweet Home, that's true. Please, Chris, Home Sweet Home. Once again, I'm not sure how I feel about Home Sweet Home. You don't like, or you don't think it's a power ballad? I have no idea. God, yeah, it's a, oh, it's a power ballad. I definitely,

34:09

was like a serious piece of music. I think it's great. Oh, I Found Someone is the Cher song. The fuck is that? Check it out. Check this out.

34:24

Don't know this thing. You know that instantly. Wait, what? Do I know? What the fuck is this? Classic Power Valley territory. I'm not arguing that it doesn't fit right into the jar. This is dining horn as well. I don't think I know this. Check it out. I mean, that's what your pop-out did. Yeah.

34:54

I don't know this song. It's a great song. You might want to go see Cher if she's playing it. Yeah, I don't know this song. It's classic Diana

35:12

I do know this song. I know the Dopey Chorus. Yep, the Dopey Chorus is what Ramooned me. Yep.

35:22

Oh, you wanted to talk about Kurt!

35:24

I think earlier. Heart, the Wilson Sisters, one of my favorite all time bands. Yeah. And Alone is one of my favorite songs. Alone, unbelievable. Do they have another good part of all of them? They must. Uh, yeah, they do. I mean, I'm over here thinking about Barracuda all day. I'm a Barracuda man. Yeah, so does Heart qualify as a, oh, they're a hard rock band. They weren't a glam rock band, right? Yeah, I'd say. Oh, All I Wanna Do Is Make Love To You was a later, a latter day. I don't know if I can set up.

35:54

These dreams

36:04

Now I think they did work with songwriters, but also and will they are the songwriters that other people work with and Wilson was She did write a bunch of hits for other people in the 90s and 2000s So I don't I don't know exactly which of those two songs they wrote and and or if any all right wait I think I have some facts about alone

36:27

Oh yeah, oh yeah, so unfortunately Alone was written by a songwriting duo who also wrote Eternal Flame for the Bengals, which is what a fucking song. So did the Bengals not write any of their own fucking songs? I don't know, that I can't tell you. Prince Famously, uh, what's, what's Prince's?

36:52

Maybe he co-wrote with these guys, Billy Steinberg and Tom Kelly. Yeah, that's what I'm thinking. I don't know. All right, look. Just a couple more things on Alone. Hart did change a key lyric. They did change a key. I find this to be a key lyric. They changed the chorus line.

37:14

What it says now is, till now I always got by on my own, which I think is like such a memorable, it's hard to know why, but that is so memorable. It was originally, I always fared well on my own. Yeah.

37:26

Oh, Prince Ropemannic Monday for the bands. Not as good a song, but a good song. It was a hit. It was still a good song. Certainly a hit, certainly a hit. So Alone was the number one hit. Correct. Let's see, that's all I have on that really. Yeah, just great. I also think that's a really good lyric song. Yeah. I feel like some of the power ballads get a bit of a bad rap from the Glam Squad being pretty bad at writing lyrics. Yeah.

37:55

And some of the power ballads that were written by largely non-glam folks or songwriting duos, Tom and Steve, often had some really fucking gripping. Yeah, your writers feed back into journeys. Like those are the songs they really. So what's journeys, what's your favorite journey? For me it's Faithfully, but I don't even know if that's a, if that's, that might just be a ballad. Nah. Is Faithfully a power ballad?

38:21

I think it's a power ballad because those It does have the electric Yeah, that's true The hits come in Yeah, it does have the hits I mean, fucking Open Arms is Open Arms, I think, is often cited as their big power ballad Would you, well, would you consider Don't Stop Believing a Power Ballad? I don't think it is I think it's too up-tempo It's too up-tempo from this Even though it starts on piano It's pretty similar to like It's up-tempo Wheels in the Sky is similar It's like a mid-tempo rocker

38:51

Unfortunately is where almost all of Toto's great material falls. Toto doesn't really have a power ballad. Yeah. They don't have a good one. They have one that people cite that kind of sucks. I'll look it up for you. But their good songs are not power ballads. Yeah. I'd be apt to agree, but I want to hear the argument. Uh, is it I'll Be Over You? No.

39:18

No, I think that stays like that. Toto or just soft book? Yeah, I agree. That's different from Power Ballad. I agree, yeah, yeah, yeah. Just real quick, and I don't want to dwell on this because last night I...

39:30

I really went off on one about it. But just talking about paucity of lyrics, nothing else matters by Metallica. Yes. Metallica, you know, the thousand pound gorilla in the room of metal, who long derided all of the glam metal, the hair metal bands. Okay. Correctly, I always thought as a teen, like I always, as much as I preferred the melodic songwriting,

39:59

hair metal I always thought Metallica were a more legitimate band. Why why exactly so like a motley crew you thought that like why would they bother writing these hooks I mean you liked them no no no I so I thought you liked it but you thought that I was better to it was better to a shoe hook well I thought it was you know in the way that classical music is more legitimate because what's good about it

40:29

I mean, but it's so yeah, but it's like a zillion hooks. It's not, that's a different question. I'm just saying, it's not just pounding one hook in. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Which, you know, is sort of Metallica's thing too, is a sort of, especially early on. It changes. Yeah, sort of, it was a malleable song rather than hooks. So they spent a long time deriding hair metalists, like actively.

40:59

and then with Black Album, and specifically, Nothing Else Matters, just really fell to their knees, begging, begging to Rock Radio to let them in. And I think their offering is one of the worst, most insipid power ballads in the crop, because part of what made power ballads,

41:26

especially notable in the Glamorica era was that suddenly these deeply misogynistic, you know, four-year-old mentality, largely dudes, uh...

41:42

were suddenly like begging for love, really making themselves vulnerable. Yeah, in fact, what they were making themselves vulnerable for was money. Was a lot of money to pour in. No, they didn't actually care about. But they at least made that trade. Yes. They made that trade. They said, what I'm gonna do for money is tear away this costume.

42:06

of someone who's simply a womanizer or just looking to party. Yeah, which is probably actually accurate. I've got feelings. I will pose as a man who has feelings. Nothing Else Matters has the most vacuous, non-specific lyrics that...

42:23

faint toward tenderness but say absolutely nothing. For that, I condemn Metallica. It is, we watched it at, we watched the video and listened to the song. Obviously, it's song challenge last night and I can verify, I didn't remember it as being a terrible song and neither did Annie, Annie Hart, you made the assertion and we were both kind of disbelieving and then we watched the video. I was fired up, I was fired up. We were like, holy shit, this song.

42:53

It's I is that generally Regarded as a terrible song it is a fucking awful song bad song It doesn't even do it doesn't even go hard like the the chorus while there is the dynamic shift, you know necessary the mixer makes sure that

43:12

It's not a good chorus. I mean, it's moderately catchy for a Metallica song. I mean, I'm not even sure which part is the chorus. Is that, never care for what you. That's kind of like a bridge they wrote. Yeah, but then what is the chorus? Nothing. There is no, I agree, there is no chorus. You're asking me to defend when the else matters? I agree. It also, you know, is a very late entry into the Stairway to Heaven ripoff. Sure. They're probably the last entry.

43:41

band to be like, oh, we would do that stairway thing. Yeah. Okay. Now, speaking of last entries, you posited that Don't Wanna Miss a Thing. Yeah. 1998. Are there any songs you can argue are power ballads since then? Well, I'm sure there are power ballads since then. I guess I'm just arguing that the genre died as an important part of popular music.

44:11

I want to ask you a question. OK. Are Snow Patrol keeping, be having a power ballad on the album alive? They are. You're right. Yeah, Snow Patrol. Snow Patrol, a classic band where like what they want to do is rock. And I love the Snow Patrol rock songs. Yeah. But once an album, Snow Patrol bring out a song that has a quiet verse, and a big old loud chorus.

44:40

It's, I would posit that run is a power ballad. Chasing Cars is a power ballad. You're right. Yep. Tell me this, is Adele's Hello a power ballad? Adele's Hello. That shit gets big in the chorus. It does. It goes from real quiet to real big. Look, I mean, Be My Baby is a power ballad then.

45:06

Really though? I mean I think... It doesn't get much bigger and louder and more aggressive in the chorus. But like... I mean Hello does a thing where it's like this verse is quiet.

45:16

and this chorus is big. It is, it's bombastic in a way that, ironically, Phil Spector was not. But Phil Spector, I think, you know, paved the way. And even like Ray Charles, you know, would do like big choruses, big harmonies would come in. But you're right that it wasn't, maybe even just wasn't mixed in the way that these songs are nowadays. Like the hunger. I think you're thinking of our cover of Be My Baby, which is a power ballad.

45:46

actually we know it is a parallel it is because like the real be my baby has that has like a sort of velocity in the verses already that it's kind of doesn't make it feel like it's tempo is too high right out of the gates like I would say it just doesn't it's not ballad yeah yeah we had a couple other ideas you're not gonna be surprised Lauren that I think Shawn Mendes might have a bar

46:16

outside of the romance idea. Is Alanis Morissette's ironic powerball?

46:24

I... Am I being a slave to the quiet loud form? Yeah, I think quiet loud on its own doesn't make a power ballad. Yeah, otherwise like In Bloom by Nirvana would be a power ballad. Okay. Yeah. Okay. What about Wonder Me? And I'll tell you this, that when you read about 80s power ballads, there's a common story told that grunge killed the power ballad. But that said, quiet loud was still appreciated.

46:53

a thing. In fact a lot of the most successful grunge singles had quiet loud. Rooster? Is Rooster a power valid? I mean Rooster is essentially a black hole son of power valid? I mean yeah maybe. Rooster's a power valid.

47:10

Rooster is, I think. Rooster, unfortunately for the storytellers, is. I'm not sure about Black Hole Sun. Yeah, I don't know. I think that's more just in the mix. Is it Bloom, Chris? I think Nirvana would hate to think. It's not, it's not. It's not. Yeah. Shawn Mendes, you might not even know the Shawn Mendes song, In My Blood. Do you know this? I can't place it based on the title. It's a power ballad. Okay. It's a power ballad. I know people are out there making power ballads.

47:40

I think I'm more asserting that the power ballad as like a dominant form of radio hit And I don't even know since radio is not a dominant form anymore how important that is as an idea But yeah, I just don't know if power ballads are like Like we're in this mishmash world now where people can grab from any number of genres and potentially have a hit as long as it's You know hooky. Yeah, and there's and there's you know, there's not gonna be five power

48:10

ballads in one summer that hit but there might be one and then there's gonna be like a Drake song and then there's gonna be like a fucking Daft Punk-y song or a Tame Impala song but there's always room for power ballads in culture but it's just not the thing anymore I think in the 80s and 90s it was it was like soft rock and power ballads dominated the charts

48:33

and they were kind of pretty similar things. They operated with similar forms. Power ballads were just bad boys doing soft rock, in theory. Plus fucking people like Cher, who are giants as well. I mean, Bette Midler. Hey, she's a bad boy. Bette Midler essentially does power ballads. Brian Adams obviously is someone we should have met. Oh, sure, sure. There's a lot of practitioners out there. That crop of public figures has kind of gone away.

49:03

When you think of like who are at the forefront of popular music, I don't think it's people like that anymore. Yeah. That's my claim. And I think maybe around 98 is when you could draw the line. Sounds like Diane Warren may have retired is the problem. Yeah. If she were to start feeding a new artist, they could certainly dominate. Yeah. Taylor Swift needs to stop working with the national guy.

49:33

do power like that is not what she does it seems like she clearly could like that could be what she's doing man she should work with the Wilson sisters yeah holy shit well we will leave everyone on tenter hooks including ourselves as to whether next week to find out if Taylor Swift made a record yeah but the Wilson sisters and Diane Warren you may have heard it here first

50:03

Yeah, hard to say. Just another hot rumor emanating from that stoop. Uh, thanks everybody. Yeah. Goodbye.